but we love doing it. one more. >> bill from nigeria. greetings. i'm a nigerian prince from the ivory coast. blah, blah, blah. $12.5 billion. million. >> when the number gets that high, i think you have to bite on something like that. give them my social security number and my attm code and my d.o.b. if you don't mind. "morning joe" starts right now. i had a different reaction to that first debate than a lot of people did. i mean, i thought -- i thought, wow, here's old moderate mitt. where you been, boy? i missed you all these last two years. now, the problem with this deal is the deal was made by severe conservative men.

that was how he described himself for two whole years until three or four days before the debate. they got together and said hey, man, this ship is sinking faster than the titanic. so just show up with a sunny face and say, i didn't say all that stuff i said the last two years. are you going to believe me or your lying eyes here. come on. what are you doing? if i'd been the president, i might have said well, hate to get in the way of this. i miss you. >> oh, boy. >> vegas brings it out. >> yes, it does. >> i don't think it was vegas. good morning, everyone. welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, october 10th. with us on set we have msnbc contributor mike bark kel and chairman of deutsch incorporated donny deutsch, hello. in washington we have political editor -- >> look at him.

looking at his notes. >> white house correspondent for the huffington post, sam stein. >> so vegas bringing it out in people? >> no, things are getting tight, he's got to get out there. help out. >> you know what's kind of interesting -- >> bill clinton. >> he's not that interesting, actually. >> he's fascinating. >> no, he's not. get over it. >> there are people in public life who run for office at a very high level. some have an easier time giving themselves to an audience than others. the president of the united states clearly has an inability to give himself to an audience the way bill clinton does. >> that's one way to put it, donny. >> he is so brilliant in the convention to break it down. beyond that engagement factor that we clearly didn't see with the president, but to me he gave me a road map for a 30-second

spot for the rest of the campaign. 5-second clips next to each other. what are you getting? he just -- it is stunning the way -- with a brilliant performance, if you contradict it with so many things over the last six months was a joke. >> bill clinton, it was vegas, come on. >> donny deutsch can tell you something happens to a man when he goes to vegas. >> what happens in vegas stays in vegas. >> he left his feet at one point, bill clinton. >> he jumped and elevated. he elevated. you know, mika, though, we have another -- let's say another cog it to put in this machine the democrats are building it to suggest that mitt romney is a flip-flopper on abortion. >> hoels is he going to win? got to do what he's got to do. >> he's flip-flopping on abortion. let's talk about that in a little bit. we see this week a series of polls that are the first

post-debate polls. we saw the pugh poll that shows romney up a great bit. now the real news begins, the state by state by state polls. >> four weeks away. can you believe it. >> we have a few to report on this morning. >> the election is coming. the fight for battleground states, less than four weeks until election day in ohio where there are 18 electoral votes up for grabs. a new cnn poll conducted after the debate shows the president leading by four points, 51-47. romney has gained four points there in just over a week. in new hampshire a new wmur granite state poll showses in last nine day he's whittled the 15-point lead down to 6 points. national polls has romney edging ahead of barack obama for the first time this year. the question is, is this what happens naturally, or was this spurred by the debate?

>> it doesn't happen naturally. it happens after an earthquake. >> really? >> there was a political earthquake last week, the likes of which i've never seen in american politics, where a shift happened that dramatically in one night. donny, you've seen these things. i had somebody tell me you need seven positive impressions to move the dial here, and you need this and that. you guys have it all figured out. usually it it creeps up on people. but the race really did -- it just changed overnight during that debate. now, what's the long-term impact? we don't know. we know it will make it more competitive. romney will go ahead in states like florida, virginia, north carolina. these other states he still has room to make up. >> that's a great word, earthquake. pollsters haven't seen a shift like that. you need a debate in front of 70

million people. next week obama is actually the good news for him, he's an underdog. all he has to do is look adepressive, feel aggressive, show up how he he should have showed up. if romney wins that debate again, i think he wins the election, because there's no way to say although tuld and he didn't want to come down to romney's level. you can't make an excuse the second time. talk about a must win. that's the flipside. >> we were saying last week that mitt romney's back was against the wall, and if mitt romney didn't stand up and deliver, the election was over. we were saying that here, and guess what? that was just the case. a lot of freakazoids on the extreme right didn't want to hear. they wanted to blame the pollsters and the media. romney had to stand up and deliver. he stood up and delivered, so we

reset the campaign. guess what? the shoe is on the other foot now. if barack obama blows it again like the first debate, i aagree with donny. that creates momentum that pushing mitt romney towards the finish line. >> we focus and talk a lot -- >> by the way, now it's left wingers who are filling my twitter feed calling me a bigot and calling all of us racists because we hate black people because we're saying the truth, mitt romney won the debate. the hatred is coming from the left and there's some desperation over there because obama has to stand and deliver, and nobody can do it for him. >> we focus on the numbers and polls and talk about them all day every day, perhaps too much. most americans during the course of their ordinary lives, to them the presidential election is a narrative. it's something they talk about occasionally, not all the time the way we do. but the narrative, the story drives the election for voters. the narrative this week and will

it continue into next week is can the president recover? can he come back and be president on the stage with the contender mitt romney? if he can't and goes down again the way he did in last week's debate, that narrative toward the end of the narrative, a lot of people think maybe he's just not up to the job. >> for people one week ago today saying debates don't matter, i think that argument is put to rest. not just because of opinions of pundits but objective truths in polls and to the debate. we can say the second debate matters, too, and the pressure is on the president. >> sam stein weigh in on this, because there's so much historical dat it at that shows sometimes debates don't matter and in many cases they don't with historic moments emblazened in our memories. they're the moments won by the

losers. >> i have a slightly different tashgs i think. if you look at the polling data from the debate, it's clear romney got a bump from it. it was on thursday and friday, the two days right after the debate. on saturday and sunday, and this is a breakdown in the gallup poll and other polls. you see it in the cnn poll of ohio, that bump sort of receded and the press's jobs numbers took over. any poll will show romney up and i'll be caution about how big the jump is. i think willie is right. it's clear the debates matter and reset the narrative. the other thing i would say is for obama if you look back at the debate, he didn't do any harm to the cause. his favorability rating went up. he didn't symptom romney's movement and put out an affirmative case for why he should be president. the legacy of this debate is obama demoralized a lot of people that supported him.

he didn't show any passion. he didn't outline affirmatively what the next four years of his administration would look like. a lot of democrats were demoralized by it. chuck todd talked about numbers before the debate, an enthusiasm gap. this doesn't help the enthusiasm gap. >> the thing is it if it's at football game, this was the first quarter. get what? mitt romney won big in the first quarter. the three more quarters, you have a vice presidential debate and two other debates. unlike football, they're not all weighted the same. if you're on barack obama's team, you think people pay attention more to debate two and three and how great is it for barack obama if you want to look at this positively. he's the underdog now. the president of the united states is now the underdog, and now if he shows up, he speaks in complete sentences. >> having said that, one thing joe you wrote yesterday in politico i thought was right on the money -- >> by the way, when i write

politico donny takes it home. >> i do times square and do responsive reading with an audience. >> okay. >> like a high holy day. we have never seen obama having to fight. we've always seen him gliding aalong the top. it's always kind of when wind at his back. i use the world gerstalt but what we really see about this guy, can he counterpunch? we've never seen him in the position. you've been called out. what do you got? we're going to see it -- you're really going to see what's in that here. >> this is so demoeshlizing. his counterpunch is big bird. what is that? that's not the most deep counterpunch you can have. >> i'm not talking about in the moment, i'm talking about now for a week or two weeks he's been called out. >> i agree with, sam, though. they're focusing on big bird. really? >> get that ad off the air.

get it off the air. >> the ad was made for cable news. >> get it off the air immediately. it shows such weakness. it really does. >> you reverend wright response. >> the race speech, right? >> he can do it. the question is, does he like to do it, or does he wait and wait and wait to say, you know, you think i'm the underdog? watch this. >> can he do it on his feet? he's not good in debates. he's horrible in debates. he was horrible against hillary clinton. he was not great against john mccain. he's got to bring his "a" games. >> it's the interactions happening or not happening in washington that people are really complaining about. they want to see somebody who can engage. it's clear to stipulate. with four weeks to go i think it's fascinating to watch candidates on the trail south of clef land last night. 12,000 people showed up in the cold to support the republican

candidate who was introduced by a fired-up governor chris christie of new jersey. >> a few weeks ago i watched the democratic national convention. i did it as a sacrifice and service to my country. i sat on my couch in my living room, and made any 12-year-old son patrick give me water. when i hear that much b.s. i he get light-headed. i'm sure he's the out there listening. mr. president you have lived behind 1600 pennsylvania avenue for four years. if you can't change washington from inside the white house, then let's get you the plane ticket back to chicago you earned. >> i've been watching some of president obama's rallies, and they chant four more years, for more years. and today there are 28 days before the election. i think the right chant for them ought to be four more weeks, four more weeks.

all right? and with an audience like this -- >> four more weeks, four more weeks, for mour more weeks, fou more weeks. >> that's a big crowd. a big crowd in the rainy -- i'm telling you -- i go back to what we said with willie. we watched this debate and sitting here and we talk about how poorly the president did. like you said, we have two great candidates. two great people. two great fathers and two great husbands. you got thousands and thousands of people coming out in the rain for romney. 30,000 came out in wisconsin last week for the president. this is going to be a great four weeks! >> it's interesting to hear you say we have two great candidates, because i don't know if it was a week ago or two weeks ago, everybody said this guy is a bad politician and a bad candidate. it's amazing what it made in in case. >> can i go on record saying, i

bochiperously said what's going to happen in this debate. i said it in great confidence. the title of the book is "often wrong, never in doubt." >> things can change. >> mitt on stage is not the most comfortable guy in the world. everybody has their strengths, and like a-rod's strength, striking out in championship games. mitt's strength is obviously in the debate. the president has other strengths. we'll see how they match up. >> things can change, which is something romney is good at. with the des moines ridge ster mitt romney said if elected president he would not push abortion-related legislation. the republican candidate supported abortion rights when he served as governor of massachusetts, a position he later changed in office. here's what he told the paper

yesterday. >> there's no legislation with regards to abortion that i'm familiar with that would become part of my agenda. one thing i would change, however, which would be done by executive order and not legislation, i would reinstate the mexico city policy. which is that foreign aid dollars from the united states would not be used to carry out abortion in other countries. >> after the former governor's comments were posted online, a romney campaign spokesperson tried to walk back the comments say, quote, governor romney would, of course, support legislation aimed at provide great protection for life. >> that's not quite what he said in the he had to heditorial mee. this is a subtle shift on abortion. this is a shift to the center on abortion. >> you can't be subtle about that, i don't think. >> like we saw a shifting tone towards bipartisanship. mitt romney is moving towards

the mitt romney that you were governed by in massachusetts. >> moderate mitt. >> a moderate republican. >> moderate mitt. clearly, we spoke yesterday about the politico story of ann romney and his family gathered around him and telling him, you know, come on, be more yourself than you have been for the last year and a half. >> here we go. >> this is part of it. >> one could argue it is the future road map for a republican candidate's swing to the right four to six weeks before the election and come back to the middle. otherwise you can't win. as ridiculous as that sounds, you can't get through the primaries and win a general election. you have to make that right turn on exit 90. it's that simple. >> sam stein, what mitt romney said yesterday in des moines and we can only troou he was well aware of what he was saying because he was giving an editor for the editorial board and an porntd newspaper? iowa. it's nothe was tossing

that out. there's aa moderate message on abortion he's not going to do anything to restrict women's rights on abortion, that is a huge change from the language that the republicans carried to tampa. >> yeah. i mean, i know there's sort of a tactical decision behind this, a strategic one to appear more moderate. it's also deceivindeceiving, ans was a republican primary, of course, mitt romney would be in deep trouble. obviously, he couldn't say something like that. it begs the question and i say this with sincerity, which position should we go by? that i know mike has more experience with mitt romney because he was governor of the state, but personally i have trouble telling what he would do as president. i have to think that if he was handed a bill that defunded planned parenthood and was asked to appoint a justice to the supreme court, he would choose

someone who would say who he believed would overturn roe v. wa wade. i don't get what we're supposed to choose here. it's strategically smart possibly but deceivindeceiving. >> i think the mitt you have is a mitt not driven by social issues, mika. you can look at him in massachusetts. you can see how he changes position time and again on social issues. he hasn't changed his positions on economic issues. this is a guy, like a lot of republicans, especially in the northeast, who would wish that all the social issues would just go away, and they could just talk about the economy, talk about taxes, talk about regulations, talk about getting people back to work. i think and i don't know but just judging by his record over the past ten years, i think he sees abortion as a sort of maddening distraction from what he considers to be his main

agenda, which is work and jobs. >> do you -- okay. do you really think he thinks that, that it's something that -- you don't think he has a gut feeling about it, a belief? >> i don't think he has a core conviction about what the federal government should do with abortion. again, you look at how much he's gone back and forth. again, there are a lot of republicans, there are a lot of conservative republicans, mike, who -- what? >> i believe it's an impractical issue for anybody trying to run for president as a republican. i'm asking what you think he believes. >> that's what i'm telling you. all you have to do is see how many times he's changed on abortion to know this isn't at his he core. you can look at his record and know what is at his core. lower taxes, lower regulations, being pro-business, getting people back to work, believing that you grow the economy from the ground up instead of from the top down. believing that individuals create jobs and wealth and

opportunity and not the federal government. that's never changed with mitt romney. these social issues, mike, you need a scorecard because it's like ping-pong going back and forth. i don't think he cares. >> the first part of description of mitt romney is who he is. how do we grow the economy and get people back to work. the social issues are an appendage. we'll deal with those later. they get in the way of the main objective. his problem on social issues was just brilliantly outlined by sam. it's the problem that a lot of voters, i think, might have with mitt romney. what does he do about the supreme court? what does he do about a bill to veto the funding for planned parenthood. what would he do as president, and that's what some voters will take into the booth with them. >> i think on those issues they're pretty straightforward. i think mitt romney will work to defund planned parenthood.

i think mitt romney will appoint conservative justices. i think he will. >> with respect to defunding planned parenthood, what he told "the des moines it register is the is the is he had no plan for that. >> bha did he say to "the des moines register?" >> he has no legislation under his administration that will deal with abortion. >> yeah. there's no legislation with regards to abortion that i'm familiar with that would part of my agenda. >> when he becomes familiar with it, what will it be? that's the next question. >> that's sort of a lawyerly answer. i grant you that. >> sort of general. >> come on. >> let's stipulate for aa lot of people abortion is a big issue you have a core conviction on. for mitt romney taking several sides at this juncture is a little troubling. >> a grown man with a wife and five kids. >> there are a lot of conservatives that say you what?

what? a lot of americans say what? my tax dollars are going to planned parenthood? i don't think that's a radical position to take. if that's his position, i don't think he's going to lose a lot of swing voters. the same thing with the mexico city language. it's safe to say there are a lot of independents and swing voters that say i don't want my tax dollars going to pay for abortions overseas. if you were pro-choice, maybe what i said offended you. a lot of guys and women that go to work are saying i'm not going to sweat all day and work and pay taxes to washington, d.c. to pay for abortions overseas or pay for planned parenthood. they make a lot of money. these are not radical positions in and of themselves. the big question mark is what type of justice will he appoint? >> that's the big question, and the reason barack obama will still win this election is because this other guy, too much of a question mark. barack obama will give you the answer. >> interesting. >> i don't think it's about the issue of boris.

it's about doesn't he believe something. a man of his age and ran for governor in 2002. he's 60-something years old. you know what you believe. you know what you believe. >> okay. ahead this morning -- >> what time is sam stein's first class today? >> i don't know. >> can you show us your notes today? >> i have nothing written down yet. just a few numbers. >> i don't believe you. >> i'm working on it. >> all right. ahead this morning, ben affleck joins us on set to discuss the new film he directed and stars in about an untold story of a daring rescue operation during the iranian hostage crisis. >> mick you saw this movie. >> it was riveting. >> look at the facial hair on ben affleck and chuck todd. >> i think chuck todd is better-looking. >> and robert gibbs and tina brown. up next, mike allen wit the top

stories in the politico playbook. first, phil karins with a check on the forecast. >> yesterday we had airport delays. if you fly out of the noshz area this morning or with connecting flights, could have additional problems. this is associated with low level moisture and drizzle drifting up through new jersey to long island. we're watching a cold front through the middle of the country. this will sweep all of this mess on the east coast away during the day today. first we have to get through it. detroit, light rain about to end for you. toledo some showers and cleveland has a few showers, too. temperatures are very cold in the northern plains. it's get your winter gear type morning, jacket, hat and gloves throughout many areas in minnesota, nebraska, and eventually look at chicago. you have a windchill of 31 degrees. there's the wet weather around southern new england. have the umbrella ready from hartford, prov dins, boston through maine, vermont and new hampshire. we should be dry around d.c. and

philadelphia. we will see more sunshine tomorrow than today. washington, d.c., not too bad today, but you have a great day tomorrow. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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now. what the heck is going on? >> what is that? >> we missed the top story, apparently. >> what is that? >> oh, my. >> i didn't see it. >> my husband went yesterday. >> let's look at the morning papers. they're not new york city tabloids. the seattle times, the obama administration. willie, i don't get this, man. this is serious. the white house cannot get their story straight on benghazi. they originally claimed the

attack on the u.s. consulate from benghazi stemmed from a protest over an anti-islam film in the u.s. and posted online. he officials at the state department said that was never their conclusion. diplomats first realized they were under attack when they heard explosions and saw armed men on suhr vamance cameras entering the compound. a congressional set for today. willie, what is going on? the white house sends out susan rice. she says something five days later. this is an embarrassment for the white house. it's an embarrassment for the state department. it's an embarrassment for susan rice. they still a month later can't get their stories straight. what's up? >> all we heard in the aftermath was about this youtube video. >> the president apologized repeatedly. >> susan rice went out five days after the attack on "meet the press" and elsewhere and said this is a result of spontaneous attack. the white house says at this point that was the information they had athat moment five days

later, but yesterday the state department came out with a details account of what exactly happened that day. they say not only was there not a protest outside the gates of the u.s. consulate in benghazi, but that was never their conclusion. they never believed there was a protest. they believed this was an act of terrorism that killed four americans including the ambassador there. so the youtube video link and everything else is -- >> the president didn't call it an act of terrorism for a long time. he wouldn't use the words. they kept talking about the youtube video and the protests. >> why, why? >> why? >> i mean, just play -- >> i don't understand why they can't get their stories straight. >> what would be the motive? let's go with that. what would be the motive? >> let's figure this out. first of all, you have the u.s. ambassador worrying, writing in his diary there's not enough protection. you have state department warnings. you have people warning the state department days in advance that things could get rough out

there. so i guess the reason why -- you know, they just now like 20 days later sent the fbi in, because they said it was too dangerous to send the fbi to benghazi to investigate this. they provided no security. they let their guard down. an ambassador -- i'm playing it out. an ambassador dies because of that. they got one warning after another and ignored it, and so now i guess it makes sense for them. i'm doing this on the fly. now it makes sense to say, there was never any protests. we could is never known this it happened, so it just happened spontaneously and who could have saved the ambassador's life? i guess, willie, that's why they're doing it. >> we're going to hear more. the darrell issa hearings begin today and we hear from the head of security in libya who said he sent cables, one in march and july asking for additional

security there because of the threat he believed there was and did not get a response. >> all right. let's go to politico. >> keyword we've been using, we employed the word four or five times in the last two minutes. we guess, we guess. we don't know. >> politico. >> they won't say. >> the chief white house correspondent is mike allen and he has a look at the playbook. hey, mike. the lead story on politico this morning angst grows amongst obama supporters. who are we talking about here? >> we're looking at the wind shear and opinion of democrats, people who all of a sudden are in a panic mode after the debate. you know, the amazing change in the narrative right after that debate. all of a sudden it's obama who has a thin agenda. it's all of a sudden obama who has suspect political skills. you were talking a little earlier about how you thought the big bird ad on the front of

"the new york post" this morning, we see big bird behind the desk in a oval office. what a lame response that is. we talked to a lot of democrats who are worried about the uncertainty of the white house response coming out after this. back in 2008 david plouffe, then the campaign manager and now the senior adviser in the white house, he used to talk about bed wetters on the campaign and among democrats. a lot of moist sheets going into this next debate. i think we're going to talk about it later on the show. joe, up with a great column last night on politico, obama's rocky mountain horror show. making the point the biggest worry for democrats, should it be the president didn't look like he wanted to? >> the good news is he has two more bites at the apple and this could change quickly. >> make allen, with a look at the playbook. thanks so much. >> the paper segment. i tell you what. "bird dropping." everybody is going after a-rod.

you have to drop him. and then in the back of the post, you actually have a proposed line-up. they haven't been sixth. i'd drop him down to seventh. >> is this the last year of his deal with the yankees? >> only six more, might be. that's it. >> look at the front of "the post." >> look at the red sox gloating as one team is mountain playoffs -- >> you're going bankrupt. who is better at dumping salary? >> come on. >> you don't do victory laps because you dump salaries. >> neither one will win the world series next year. the only difference is next year you're bankrupt. >> my 3-year-old son will graduate high school when a-rod's contract is up. >> when can they do something about empty seats in big playoff games at yankee stadium. >> they won't be empty for the playoffs. it will be filled. >> so depressing it to watch the yankees game. >> fenway is --

>> up next the oakland a's season stays alive thanks to coco crisp and other former red sox players. thank you. what a grab. highlights are next. ah. fire bad! just have to fire roast these tomatoes. do you churn your own butter too? what? this is going to give you a head start on your dinner. that seems easier sure does who are you? [ female announcer ] new progresso recipe starters. five delicious cooking sauces you combine with fresh ingredients to make amazing home-cooked meals. ♪ ambiance [ female announcer ] new progresso recipe starters. your head-start to home cooked. [ female announcer ] new progresso recipe starters.

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baseball playoffs. out in oakland win or go home

for the a's. they had a great season and had to win against the tigers to save it. watch this catch by coco crisp. >> ex-red sox, correct? >> yeah. >> a dive off the bat of prince fielder. a great play there by chris redeeming himself. had a couple of bad plays earlier in the season. seth smith of the a's connects a solo home run after the facade in the center field. he gets miguel cabrera swinging there. anderson gave up two hits and struck out six in six innings of work. seventh inning, prince fielder drives one to the gap. the diving catch. the tigers can't get anything going. due in large part to the a's defense. 2-0 in the ninth. grant balfour on to close the door. fielder grounds into the double play. he was the tieing run right there. the a's live to fight another day. they have another must-win game

tonight in oakland. >> can they do it, can they come back? >> sure they can. you can't win two games at home? of course you can. >> a team of destiny. >> the tigers will win this. >> i love the tigers and a's and orioles. there's great teams. >> all day today baseball, joe. >> here's your line-up from 1:00 to midnight. >> i love the orioles and the tigers and the a's. >> watch out for the reds. >> by the way, the giants won in cincinnati last night to keep their season alive. a little nfl. despite monday night's ugly performance by mark sanchez in the jets' loss to the texans, rex ryan says sanchez is still his man. asked yesterday if sanchez will remain the starter, ryan said, quote, no question. when you look at it, he played pretty good. i thought he was accurate. >> is he drinking again? 45%, 45%. >> we love rex ryan, but here are the numbers for sanchez so

far this year. he's last in the league in completion percentage, second-to-la second-t second-to-last in quarterback rating. he's the first quarterback with four straight games with a completion percentage under 50%. the jets hoes andrew luck and the coles next month. you have tim tebow and a backup quarterback for a reason. you didn't sign tim tebow to cover punts, which is what he's doing right now. >> when does woody have to pick up the phone. >> i sat in woody's box on monday night. henry kissinger and joe namath. what's better than that, watching a football game with henry kissinger in the box and joe namath. woody wants to win. he's a great guy. >> you have to go back 37 years to find a jets quarterback that has as low passing ratio as sanchez does this year. you have to get rid -- you got

to give tebow a chance. >> we like mark sanchez. we rooted for him, but he's lost his confidence. >> got to go. >> mika's must read opinion page is next.

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a model year newer. learn about it at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility -- what's your policy? okay. welcome back to mortga"morning " beautiful shot of capitol hill in washington. the sun has yet to come up, but it's time it to wake up. we have two must reads for you. thomas friedman and joe scarborough. >> i love hearing those two names in the same sentence. >> what? your's is really good. so is friedman's. we'll start with that. mitt romney gave a foreign policy speech on monday that can be boiled down with one argument, everything wrong with middle east is traced to a lack of leadership by president obama. if in speech is any indication of the quality of romney's thinking on foreign policy, then

we should worry. it was not sophisticated and described in the complex aspirations of the people of the middle east. it was not accurate in describing what obama has done or honest about the prior positions romney has articulated. it was not compelling or imaginative in terms of the strategic alternatives it offered. the worst message to send right now to middle easterners is their future is bound up to what we do. it is not. they're rarely more complicated and more in need with radical new approaches by us and men. would anyone like to comment? >> well, yeah. i mean, barack obama four years ago when he was running for president was just slashing and burning george w. bush's foreign policy. bush didn't understand iran. if we just spoke to them and talked to them unilaterally everything would be okay. the same thing with gitmo.

i'm going to close it down a year. bush and cheney were too draconian. he kept a lot of things. it's easier for any candidate, for mitt romney or barack obama to the point fingers at the guy running the country and has to worry about keeping americans safe. >> i wouldn't agree with na completely. >> this is a one issue candidate and no curiosity in foreign affairs. curiosity is not the right word. no soul or passion for it. he's a business guy. >> it's a checklist. check it off. i gave the foreign policy speech, and i reached new heights of vagueness. >> he was misleading on what this president is doing. the one thing that's different than four years ago is he was sort of misframing the current president, the current administration strategies, especially pertaining it to sanctions on iran and how we're dealing with iran. it was not accurate, and it was

a little bit irresponsible. >> not to be point-counterpoint but i thauz president obama hit george w. bush and dick cheney with a sledgehammer accusing them of wanting to shred the constitution and not respecting rights and wanting to destroy america's standing across the world for enacting policies that barack obama sxwroe bidand joe kept in place. >> sam stein. >> i would make the point that the complexity of the foreign policy can challenges we face doesn't lend ifrts to a campaign speech. look at the air rack spring alone. the revolutions in separate countries present different challenges. what works in egypt might not work in libya and certainly doesn't work in syria. you can't distill it to something to show more strength and resolve. on the same token, obama has a lot of trouble figuring out what america's imprint should be in any of those countries.

it's almost impossible to make it into a political issue because you have to do it in such a vague marns that, you know, you end up with columns like thomas friedman's. >> it would be the final debate and a challenge, because i think most americans understand it's a lot easier to complain from the cheap seats whether you're barack obama in 2008 or mitt romney in 2012 then being the guy sitting at the desk having to make the decision day in and day out. how do i protect americans at home? how do i protect americans -- >> i wouldn't have done if i were romney, especially pertaining to the middle east from politico. we'll move on now. this is your piece you wrote for politico. obama's rocky mountain horror show. is the 44th president no more than a mediocre political talent who has one of the greatest runs of luck in history? it and did that luck begin it to run out in denver last wednesday during the homestretch of his final campaign.

a week later many democrats fear that it did. it is possible that the political class has overestimated barack obama's tal lenlted for too long now. i suspect wednesday night was more the result of an arrogant campaign underestimating a former massachusetts governor. that proved to be a dumb thing to a guy that breezed through harvard, saved a winter olympics, signed a landmark health care bill with with ted kennedy by his side, raised five gifts boys and retains the love and respect of a woman he first met in elementary school. like every campaign that cross swords with ronald reagan, chicago's arrogance blew up in their face. the question is whether barack obama will suffer the same fate as governor pat brown and president jim my carter. the answer to that question is anyone's guess. >> joe, when you write i picture clive owen and "love actually" when he's typing on the twirt. >> actually he's hunched over a

computer. >> it's an ascot. >> just that whole scenic thing. >> do you have a pipe? >> good column. >> thank you. we would the big question before, mike, whether mitt romney was up to it before the debate. it was a fascinating question. can this guy that saved and turn around other organizations, can he not save himself? the great question being asked by democrats now, did we buy into something that wasn't what we thought we got? can he rise to the challenge? i personal think barack obama is going to answer the bell and do very well. >> definitely. >> i think the big problem is they were so arrogant, the entire operation, toward mitt romney. >> no doubt. >> nethese are a group of peopl that saw barack obama feed a state senator who was under

scandal, who saw barack obama win the u.s. senate race because his main opponent took his wife to strip clubs who won the presidency after eight years of george w. bush. i don't think he's had his back against the wall. i love it. it's fascinating to see the character of this man and see how he responds. >> well, you know, you can't show up to the next debate if you're the president of the united states clearly accompanied by a level of disdain that was so apparent visually. what am i doing here with this guy? he had absolutely no respect for mitt romney. you know, you hear that over and over again internally, but he showed it visually. he showed it when he was on stage with governor romney the other night. he cannot show up like that again. >> it was also a strategy, though. he was playing four corners offense. he felt like he had a lead and took the air out of the ball. he can't afford to do that. there's still four weeks left. he'll be a totally different guy

in the next debate. >> i don't think so. i think he arises to the occasion and it will be great. >> ahead this morning, senior adviser to the obama re-election campaign, robert gibbs. we'll be right back.

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lookin' good, flo! feelin' good! feelin' real good! [ engine revs ] boat protection people love. now, that's progressive. call or click today. sam stein, thank you very much. go to school. >> yeah. i can understand why you need to

get me off the set before aflac comes on. two guys with brooding hollywood looks, not good for the show. >> yes. we can only take so much. >> it's true. >> plus, you got to commute to your 8:00 class. >> yeah, that, too. >> move on and head on out the door. okay, sam. thanks. >> take care. >> it's kind of depressing playing radio for free europe knowing that sam stein wasn't alive when r.e.m. wrote that song. what year do you figure nervous? >> '81. >> it was '81. >> sam is in graduate school. >> straight ahead nbc news political director chuck todd, and editor of "newsweek" and "the daily beast," tina brown. keep it right here on "morning joe." ♪ [ male announcer ] how do you make 70,000 trades a second... ♪

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i had a different reaction to that first debate than a lot of people did. i mean, i thought -- i thought, wow. here's old moderate mitt. where you been, boy? i missed you all these last two years. now, the problem with this deal is the deal was made by severe conservative men. that was how he described himself for two whole years until three or four days before the debate. they all got together and said,

hey, man, this ship is sinking faster than the titanic, so just show up with a sunny face and say, i didn't say all that stuff i said the last two years. you go to believe me or lying eyes here? come on. what are you doing? and if i'd been the president, i might have said, well, i hate to get in the way of this. i miss you. >> oh, my goodness. >> he turned it on for us. welcome back to "morning joe." you love him. >> i love him. >> come o-tina. >> that's like a jam session he does when he gets up there. at the convention he got up and jammed and it was absolute magic. >> you can see the editor and chief of "newsweek" magazine and "the daily beast," tina brown and in washington host of ""the daily rundown"," chuck todd. >> did he jump up and down?

>> yes, he did. >> we need to let presidents run for two feterms. i want him back to the campaign tram. >> let him run. he should be the permanent campaigner. i think that we know. >> he really should. >> he loved it it. >> the more obama and the better clinton gets. >> what do you think? what are you trying to say, tina? >> he's enjoying it. >> right now he's having a ball, because this is where he thrives and what he knows how to do better than anyone. >> the sweet spot. >> we begin this hour with the fight for the battleground states. less than four weeks until election day in ohio where 18 electoral votes are up for grabs. a new cnn poll conducted after the debate shows the president leading by 4 points. romney gained four points in just over a week. in new hampshire a new granite state poll shows in the last nine days, romney has whittled

the president's 15-point lead down to 6 points. the new clear politics average of national poll says has romney ahead of president obama for the first time this year. >> chuck, you're not surprised by this tightening in these swing states, are you? >> i'm not. i think the thing if you're team obama, you're relieved about ohio, and this is sort of matching what i hear internally, which is romney definitely got a bump. the question was did bahama slide or sort of stall. the ohio poll indicates he may have just stalled and you see that romney got a bump. look, this whole thing to me for romney is about ohio, iowa and wisconsin, right? he's got to get two of those three in play. you realize if the president just wins all three of those states, joe, he's at 271? >> right. >> so it doesn't matter, nothing else matters.

so that's why you'll see a lot of romney in iowa and ohio in particular. they've got to rest one, probably both of those states away from barack obama. >> for all the swing states and those of you don't wake up with a map staring at you like chuck todd and myself, this is assuming mitt romney wins, florida, north carolina, virginia, colorado and nevada. a lot of swing states. he has to win two out of three out of ohio, wisconsin, iowa. i don't think he's going to win wisconsin. >> he has to win one of them. if he swept all those others he just had to win one. >> romney would? >> yes. >> if romney wins ohio, he's still -- >> he gets there. or he win iowa. he just has to win one of these midwestern states. >> which one is the best target for him? >> i think it's -- organizationally, i would say it's ohio.

i don't know. i think both ohio and iowa are hard. >> mike i agree with you. i'm thinking iowa. >> i think there are huge organizational holes that romney dug for himself in both of those states. >> chuck, it's donny. you talked a lot and i found this fascinating about kind of enthusiasm gap as far as that energizing. i found those numbers stunning and as a he democrat very concerning. talk a little bit about na. >> it was predebate, and that's the other thing. it's something we've been tracking. this has been sort of the issue. it's why the president was in columbus yesterday. it's why he did -- his last two rallies, madison, wisconsin and columbus, ohio. the university of wisconsin and ohio state university. this issue of enthusiasm among young voters and enthusiasm among latinos in particular, those two parts of his base. african-american enthusiasm subpoeis up and fine and there. latinos and young voters, this

is sort of the president's challenge. it's not about swing voters for him i would argue. at this point it's about trying to fire up two voting groups more than anything else, because they doubled it. he's winning latinos by a bigger margin, but because they're not as enthusiastic if they don't look like likely voters, he might not net any new votes in some places. if seniors are ticking up in enthusiasm, which is what we show, that's the difference in nevada, right? that's how a nevada goes 51-49 obama to 51-49 romney. >> mika. >> we saw also in the polls the enthusiasm gap, which i think is really troubling for the president but also tightening with women. what do you think is going on there? >> what i find very interesting is how one of the problems obama now has is his own side is so hysterical. it's like the republicans are

very good at staying on message when they have a bad hole to get into it. if something goes wrong for them, the whole commentary and structure gets behind the candidate. it's always been a problem for democrats. they're so kind of divided amongst themselves, they wring their hands and become hysterical. the actual reaction by condemns to obama's performance is much more damaging than the performance himself. certainly traffic is roaring on he "the daily beast" with liberals jumping ouft of tt of window wringing their hands saying he just gave way the election. >> chuck, you used two interesting words in describing the internals of the polls a couple of minutes ago. stall and slide. stall is one thing. you can deal with that, i imagine. but slide, that's a pretty dangerous development in any campaign. how do they know or not know if it's a stall or slide from the numbe

numbers? >> everything i understand in the internals and private data that i heard about is that the president is not sliding, if you will. this is not a slide. a slide is dangerous. a slide is when you're in a dam pain, and joe knows this. your numbers go down every night. you don't know how to stop one of those things what you see here is a stault if stall if you will. you have a lot of soft republicans who came home to romney, enthusiastically came home to romney. that helps to give him part of this bump. he was really underperforming, i think, among some republican-leaning independents. the next part of this for romney, he's accomplished part one to get it back to the preconvention levels, to get this campaign to basically even, but he still hasn't broken the structural advantage that the president has in the battleground states. that's step dwo, and that hasn't occurred yet.

that takes another debate if romney pulls this off. >> chuck, i'm looking forward at nbc news/maris polls coming out. when are you releasing them -- >> tomorrow morning. >> please don't say it. you can look at the states -- don't -- >> side effects include the ability to -- >> call the doctor if. so anyway there are all of these different states that have different xhashcharacteristics. look at ohio, statewide poll. you're right. the president stalls. he's not slipping up at 41%. you look at new hampshire, and you know, we kind of have a gut. who is going to react for aggressively to the president's poor performance? the president actually drops points in new hampshire. i suspect we see him dropping points in florida. we'll see him dropping points in north carolina, dropping points in virginia.

in states that aren't his natural, natural base. so i think every state -- i guess you'd agree with me probably. every state is going to be different. some states are going to react differently than the president's poor performance. >> i think that's -- look, i think there's truth to that. from what i understand is this. in states that the president had a narrow lead, well, those states are basically even or romney is uple a little bit. in the states where the president had a lead outside the margin of error, his lead is now -- he still has the lead, but it's inside the margin of error. that's sort of the pattern from what i understand in talking to sort of professional pollsters who have been in the field sunday, monday. don't forget, there's that thursday/friday immediate reaction polling, which was really good for romney and really bad for obama. there's more of a settled status of what you see the numbers sunday and monday from what i understand where still good for romney, but it's not an bahama tanking, if you will.

>> moving on, a new picture is developing from the state department of what really happened when gunmen stormed the u.s. consulate in benghazi, libya and killed four americans including the u.s. ambassador there. the obama administration initially claimed the attack stemmed from a protest over an anti-islam film produced in the united states. officials at the state department say that was never their conclusion, adding there was no protest at all. in fact, diplomats first realized they were under attack when they heard explosions and saw armed men on surveillance cameras entering the compound. a quick response team was dispatched with 60 libyan men to stop the assault. they were too late. by then the attackers set fire to the building where ambassador chris stevens was hiding. that act directly conflicts with want description of the attack provided on "meet the press" by u.s. ambassador to the u.n. susan rice on september 16th, five days after the incident

took place. >> putting together the best information that we have available to us today. our current assessment is that what happened in benghazi was, in fact, initially a spontaneous reaction to what had just transpired hours before in cairo. almost a copycat of the demonstrations against our facility in cairo, which were prompted, of course, by the video. what we think then transpired in benghazi is that opportunistic extremist elements came to the consulate as this was unfolding. >> today congress is set to hold a hearing on the attack. it's expected to focus on potential security lapses at the compound and whether the administration originally down-played the link to terrorist elements. >> in "newsweek" this week we're talking about susan rice coming under fire. it seems, though, this story continues to evolve. the white house can't get the story straight. at first it was the video.

then it was a spontaneous demonstration, and then it was a terror plot. now the state department has come out and said, it just all happened so fast. we had no idea. a month later they still can't tell us what happened. >> obviously, this is one of the difficulties of realtime news breaking and evolving before people really do know the answers, before they get all the right intelligence and clearly susan rice was speaking out before they hadn't had enough time to really analyze intelligence and get that intelligence. it's been a big mistake. i also do think it's a really interesting, difficult problem now for state department dma diplomats. how do you interface with a community being so surrounded by security, so completely sort of enclosed? what we see from the picture of christopher stevens is he was a man that really wanted to interface with the community, who wanted to be out in the streets of libya and probably didn't have enough protection. we saw how in afghanistan and

iraq these diplomats were locked into green zones, locked down, had no interface and couldn't gather information and was so protected they felt they couldn't do their job. it's a difficult issue, i think, how you protect people in today's world. >> the white house needs to get their story straight. a month later they still don't have it. >> they do. >> a catching cover on "newsweek "newsweek." "heaven is real." tell us about it. >> this neuroscience iist has a illness. he lay there dead, and he did describe this extraordinary experience over a different realm of consciousness. it's probably the most potent description of what an afterlife might be. >> what was it? >> it shows how he's traveling

in this world in which all darkness -- there's a powerful feeling of a darkness that is also unbelievably radiant, and he's part of this radiant darkness, if you can understand that analogy, and that there's great feelings of love, acceptance, and powerful communication are in him without any actual verbal communication. it's feelings that are literally kind of absorbed into him, and he's riding through this radiant darkness with a presence who you could say is an angel. this guy is a real pragmaticist. it's a very vivid description of what feels like a different kind of consciousness level. >> you just described me sitting here every morning. >> radiant darkness. >> you got to read it. it's very powerful. >> fascinating. fascinating stuff. >> the cover story of the new issue of "newsweek," "heaven is

re real." thank you, tina. >> we'll see you on "the daily rundown." >> it's right here, msnbc, it's heaven on erts. >> wow. >> i gave you props before. same exact facial hair as ben ach fleck. i think it works better on you, buddy. >> okay, i guess. donny, i will take -- my wife says if you're giving me props fashion-wise, maybe i'm doing something right. that's about the only praise she gives you, donny. that's it. >> by the way, chuck, you need to call the doctor. your flova is acting up. >> side effects include delusional feelings towards tv advertising. >> coming up is robert gibbs. he joins us. a little later -- >> why aren't we playing the bee gees. >> because that's tired and old

and been done. >> all the kids are doing it. >> ben affleck is here for the latest on his film he directed and starred in. it's an action-packed story during the covert operation during the 1979 iranian hostage crisis. this story they haven't heard. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i've worked hard to build my family.

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i'm barack obama and i approved this message. >> bernie madoff, ken lay, criminals and gluttons of greed and the evil genius that towered over them? one man has the guts to speak his name. >> big bird. >> it's me, big bird. >> big, yellow, a menace to our economy. mitt romney knows it's not wall street you have to worry about but sesame street. >> i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs taking on the enemies no

matter where they nest. >> these are tough times, and you have to scratch your head when the president spends the last week talking about saving big bird. >> children, do you know what our letter of the day is? what is it, barnacle. >> g. >> it's g for gibbs. joining us from washington, obama campaign senior adviser and former white house press secretary robert gibbs. gibby, good to see you. >> good morning. how are you guys? >> we're good. let's jump right into it. they're still talking about the debate. they keep going on and on about it. they're writing about it, and i wonder what your take is on this point. is it sort of lathering in the echo chamber, or are you all concerned that perhaps the president's debate performance affected the polls we see a tightening in. >> i think everyone in our campaign understood that our polls would get closer and tighter. as i said, i don't think the

president even lived up to his own high expectations in that debate, and i know that he's looking forward to the next debate. i know that vice president biden is, too, because we have important issues it to debate and discuss. hopefully whether we do that debate and discussion, we'll do it with, you know, mitt romney and congressman ryan that won't walk away from a whole host of policy decisions in the middle of the debate. >> understanding, though, the president has to sort of go after mitt romney and engage and fight with him a little bit on the debate stage. is that something you all are bringing to the table? >> well, look, i don't want to give away everything. obviously, we want a nice crowd for the debate. i think each candidate has to be very much on their toes. what i mean by na is president obama and vice president biden, for watching mitt romney and paul reasyan do as they've done throughout this campaign, which is walk away from what they talked about days earlier.

we got a great example yesterday. mitt romney goes to "the des moines register" board saying there's nothing in his agenda to restrict a woman's right to choose, which we know after having said in debates he's happy to sign a legislation that ended all abortions. we understand there's a mitt romney you see pop up in public, particularly right now, and there's a mitt romney that believes a series of things that directly contradict what he says currently in public. it's a question for people watching that transformation in front of their eyes. it's hard to trust somebody doing that, and i think it's their right to question whether or not mitt romney is just telling you everything you want to hear right now. his positions are all the same. >> mr. gibbs, it's donny deutsch. >> hey, donny. >> was there a strategic decision before the last debate. i could have seen it being made and actually a smart one in hindsight that mr. president, you're up here. mr. romney is down here. when he talks, do not look at him, look at the audience.

when he is talking, look at the audience. do not engage him, because it puts you guys on on the same level. did anybody ever say anything like that? was there any strategic point? it did make sense in hindsight, but it backfired. >> then the president came to have a discussion with the american people and answer questions about where we've been and more importantly where we need to go to continue to strengthen this economy. but, again, i think the president was entirely taken aback, as many of us were, watching somebody like mitt romney say something like i don't have a $5 trillion tax cut. i don't pledge to raise or cut taxes on the wealthy in this country. i love teachers. you know, i think we should have more of them. a whopolicy positions that disappeared instantaneously on that stage. i have no doubt, though, that president obama and vice president biden understand now that we're dealing with a guy

that looks a lot like mndz romney and sounds like mitt romney, but we have mitt romney who believes that we ought to cut taxes on the wealthy as a way to prop up and drive economic growth, and that's his single economic theory, and we've got a guy who believes that we should be cutting teachers, not hiring more of them to invest in growth. >> robert, it's willie. it's good to see you this morning. >> hey, willie. >> i hope you can promise the american people and obama supporters that gene chizik won't be involved in the debate prep for the next debate. >> did joe put you up to that? >> that was all me, robert. >> please call joe scarborough and tell him to quit going negative. >> robert, i'm right here. >> we have a big game against vandy coming up, willie. >> the chizik era speaks for itself, willie geist. >> i think we have the same number of national championships as we do, don't you? >> oh, boy. >> we have one more. >> don't open that door, my man.

>> this is all my fault. i totally derailed us. i take responsibility. >> mika, grab hold of this. >> we have a pretty serious briefing yesterday from the state department about what happened that night on september 11th at the u.s. consulate in benghazi, libya. it contradicted early statements from susan rice including one on "meet the press" where she said a protest in response to a youtube video, a spontaneous protest got out of hand and turned into an event that killed four americans, including the u.s. ambassador. what is the white house's position on what exactly happened that night? >> well, let me be careful here, willie. i don't have the job i used to have and don't have access to the type of intelligence that people do at the white house. let me say this about susan rice. nobody has been a better public servant in this administration than susan rice. i have no doubt that what susan rice said was exactly the intelligence assessments she was provided by the intelligence

community in order to prepare for those appearances. nobody wants to get to the bottom of this more than the obama administration and the white house. we need to make sure that we're doing everything we can to protect our consulates and our missions across the world. we need to demand that governments make sure they protect the people that we have serving in those, and we need to get to the bottom of this. >> i understand, robert, you're not in the white house technically at this point, but obviously you talked to the president. has the position evolved and the white house believe that it was not a spontaneous attack that led to the death of the ambassador? >> again, i don't have access to all that, willie. i will say this. obviously every step of this in every day you learn more about what happened. when you peel back the intelligence and you peel back the information that we get. again, i think it's important to understand that susan rice would not have gone out there and in any way tried to deliberately mislead anybody.

that certainly would never be the case. susan rice was briefed by the intelligence community, and what she was talking about on "meet the press" and on that sunday was exactly what the intelligence community was telling her. >> robert, everyone knows the president obviously has a day job. on the campaign side of his life, what are you doing differently to prepare for this debate as opposed to the last time? anything? >> well, look, i think there's a -- you know, part of it, mike, is that i think as we said before the first debate, this has been a while since the president's done this. you can do some prep as is being done, but look, i think nothing really gets you in shape like doing it in the actual event. i think this president's going to bring a much different game to this debate. he understands what's at sftake in this election. vice president biden understands the big choice in front of us as a country.

i think you'll see two people that will take a very direct course in this debate and lay out of choice for the american people. >> so robert, let me do -- i will do a service for you and democrats across america as the republican on this set who is supporting mitt romney. i have such a big heart because i'm an alabama guy and i know we're going to win the national championship this year that i feel generous this morning. >> i'll say. >> the most telling thing since the wednesday night debate hasn't been republicans sashgs because they say what you expect them to say, or independents. it's been president obama supporters, people that believed from the very beginning who are the ones most concerned and upset. we hear it wherever we go. i'm sure you hear the same thing. what do you say to the people that believed in president obama from the very beginning who are really nervous this morning because their man didn't step up and deliver last week? what do you say to them to assure them that everything is

going to be okay? >> i would tell them to take whatever nervous energy they have and whatever hand-wringing they will do over the next 24 to 48 hours and p put that into a real effort to get this president re-elected. the president can't do it by himself. i guarantee you you'll see an energetic, enthusiastic president in that next debate. instead of being nervous and hand-wringing and calling your friends and worrying unnecessarily, get out there and register somebody on to vote. go to a phone bank. make sure you tell your friends what's at sfak take in this rac. there are always going to be -- it's always a very close race. we've been through this before, and we understand that the only way this is going to work is if everybody gets out there and does their part. if we do our part, i guarantee the president will more than do his part. let's go out there and stop hand wringing and get to work. >> okay. >> that is a correct answer, by the way. pick up the phone. i'm just saying, both sides

whine about so many things. if you are concerned, pick up the phone and call your friend, plant a yard sign and volunteer and get out in the streets, knock on doors. whether you're a republican or democrat, don't sit at home and whine. get out there and move the election. this one, robert, is going to be close s close, isn't it? >> it's going to be close. we always thought it was. the truth is a lot of people throughout this country make a difference who is elected president. go out there and talk to them. >> robert gibbs, thank you very much. it's great to see you. see you soon. >> thank you. >> the last time vice president joe biden was in a nationally televised debate, it was in a face-off against sarah palin. what does he need to do different tomorrow night against paul ryan. jim garrity from "the national review" joins us next.

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37 past the hour. >> look how beautiful that is. >> it is a beautiful day in washington. i made a mistake. i'm sorry, barnacle. you might want to get a bigger shirt size. it's tight right there. >> yellow elo coming in this mo. you have to love elo donny

deutsch. >> sometimes you have to step back and smell the roses and beauty around us. >> i have no idea what you're talking about. >> blue skies. sometimes it's easy to take it for granted. >> perhaps i haven't seen blue skies in the tri-state area for the past week, it's hard to remember what they look like. now jim garrity and he's a columnist for the "new york daily news." you read his column and said we have to get it on the show. >> i read it to you in concern, and you said let's book him. you recently wrote about the president's bid for re-election and wrote this. obama has suggested that his re-election could pop the blister of partisan passions in washington, but that theory envisions republicans ka.lating and accepting tax increases and immigration bill they deem amnesty and so on. the choice before americans is a rerun of the gridlock of the past two years or something

different? a republican-controlled washington, but with a president romney whose record, demeanor and style is quite different from that of george w. bush. romney's message was simple but resonate. if we can get more americans in jobs, we'll see dramatic improvement in our budgetary debt and social conditions. if by november 6th americans conclude they believe romney can deliver on that vision, then the conventional wisdom of just a few weeks ago may prove spectacularly wrong. romney may not just win, he may win handily. >> let's thank t.j. for taking out the entire column. >> yeah. >> way to go. that was a long one. >> well. >> mika -- >> i didn't mind at all. >> why did that jump out at you? you think americans think washington is not working because of barack obama, right? >> look. i think that -- i have to be careful how i say this, because i think our viewers are very intelligent, americans are very

intelligent but we sometimes have a short-term memory. i think the debate was watched by a lot of people, and i think it was a very bad performance. that's where i leave it. >> jim, i guess the question is, does mitt romney make the argument i can make things work over the next four years because i know how to work with people in the other party? >> yeah. it's not long ago i was talking to a regular sources. i nickname him middle cheese because back in the '04 campaign he was in between. he said, look, the message to the base is done. purple state voters, people in the middle, it's a straight play to them. a lot of those voters aren't "morning joe" watchers don't pay a lot of teengs what's going on in washington just see negativity and arguing sxpt it to stop. if my etiquette is working in industry or any other field and you spend half your time beating up the opposition, you wouldn't

get a heck of a lot done. in the last two years they don't like it. the problem with obama is they didn't like what they saw out of wash washington from 2009 to 2010 either. >> jim, my complaint on mitt romney has been all along he's not been conservative enough on spending issues, especially. i tell you what. he seemed to strike the right tone in the debate the other night. i thought when he talked about what he did in massachusetts where every monday morning he would sit down with democrats, that's just something that doesn't happen in washington anymore. i think that resonates. i think that resonates in a big way with american voters now. >> yeah. one of the things that's been very odd about mitt romney being the republican nominee is you have a guy who doesn't have a real natural geographic base. he's governor of massachusetts only for one term and doesn't win the state of massachusetts. i don't think he's predicting that. he grew up in michigan, but he

doesn't have enormously recent roots there. one of the his biggest accomplishments was in utah, and he was in a state where they had a veto-proof majority in the state legislature the entire time. so he can push himself as somebody who, look, whether or not i wanted to work with democrats, i had to work with democrats. >> okay. >> you look at the outlook for the house, chances are republicans have the house and the senate is looking very close. right now i would bet harry reid will be majority lead in the senate come january next year. he has to say, look, i'm a guy who can work with the two groups. we've seen obama try it to work with boehner and reid and the results are less than impressive. >> isn't the choice not the debate performance and where we're going? wouldn't it be the argument for the obama campaign that the housing market is moving, the automobile industry has been revived, the consumer confidence is up, unemployment has gone down steadily in every way to look at that data and that mitt romney's policy when is it comes

to jobs brings us back to the very types of policies that got us into this situation? >> romney is going to have to do what he can to say, look, i'm not george w. bush. the entire message from obama from the beginning of the campaign has been the policies of bush got us into this -- >> how is he not george w. bush in terms of his economic policy? >> because he's been a much more successful record in business. george w. bush was owner of a baseball team and went straight to being governor of texas. mitt romney is an expert on turn-around. he can point on the olympics and all of the different cases and right now he can point to a turn-around campaign. no long knives are out. maybe this is the tagg romney turn-around in the romney campaign. >> that's good. >> go ahead. i'm sorry. >> go ahead and finish up, jim. >> just observing that you mentioned earlier that you see the economy improve. we are back to only the second

worst year for foreclosures in the past 17 years, so, yes we are better than we were in 2011. i don't know if this is necessarily where you want to be. i think the argument that 7.8% unemployment -- i'm not jumping into any jack welch conspiracy theories or anything. i don't know if we should dance a jig over 8% unemployment. >> we're not. >> you can look at gas prices close to $4 a gallon. apparently they jumped another 20 cents in california. this is not that great of an economy. >> nobody is playing "happy days are here again." >> as you play the majs of mitt romney. he has the white sid burns. does he color his hair? i'm being sear. if he does, can we trust the guy? i'm sorry. why hasn't anyone asked that question? >> don't go to me on this. >> i have people ask me every day, why do you have donny cot the on the air? >> do you want a president of the united states who colors his hair? >> oh, my god.

>> let's go to mike barnicle, ronald reagan colored his hair for 80 years. that's good. >> is that a yes? >> we don't know. >> mike, really quickly i want to touch on what jim has been talking about, the column was talking about, what a lot of middle swing voters in america are concerned about. that is that washington hasn't worked over the past four years. when you have a new guy coming in and doesn't just talk about changing the tenor of washington but can say, i was a republican governor in a state that was 87% democratic in the legislature. i passed a health care reform bill, and i had ted kennedy standing next to me when i did it. that's a lot different from elizabeth warren saying, i can't name a single person that i would work for on the republican side if i were sent to the senate. >> there were many, many days when mitt romney was governor of massachusetts that when he went

to his office, the corner office in the statehouse in boston, massachusetts, he was the only republican in the building. seriously. >> seriously. >> seriously. the legislature -- the senate and house, 87% democrat, sometimes the republicans wouldn't even show up for work. >> jim, i mean, he had to learn like you said. he had no choice but to work with them, but he figured out how to do it. >> yeah. he knew when to compromise and when to get a little confrontational. look up when the big dig had the recent disaster and a little concrete fell down. he got tough with the guy in charge of the construction project. he knows where to fight and play mr. nice guy and mr. warm and smiling and nonmenacing friendly mormon guy. >> jim garrity. good to have you on the show. come back. >> always enjoy you guys. >> we're sorry donny deutsch sidetracked us on hair color. >> if the average american thought a man was coloring his hair would lose trust in him.

i'm serious. why can't you say in? >> donny, you're playing to type here. >> danny pino joins us. which book is the episode based on? we're going to find out on "morning joe." ♪

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maybe she was the professor that doesn't want to get called out. >> porn the porn. >> joycelyn's highbrow references. the depth in her tweets. she's living a double life. kings like this just don't spring up overnight.

>> you want to get johnny started on that? >> the new episode. >> it's even embarrassing if you want to have that discussion. >> now in it's 14th season on nbc. good to have you. >> a dog that puked on you? your co-star richard belzer. >> it's more like a baptism. >> all over me, all over the floor, on the air. >> were yourself part of the family. >> what are we going to see? >> 25 acts, it's basically based on author who writes a very scandalous book about s & m and a talk show host forces himself on her.

>> ripped from the headlines. >> what happens to this talk show host. >> i can't reveal that. >> it goes to trial. it is law and order. so, you know, he's put into peril and it's an s & m novel. >> talk show host and s & m. >> mika has read it 14 times. >> this makes "shades of gray" look like -- >> last season ended on a cliffhanger. >> last season ended in a dead escort. >> in the captain's bedroom. >> hot, honey, my why don't you just take it from here. >> so big bird comes in.

>> so talking about what it's like about giving this role and getting this show with one of the iconic directors on all of television? >> living in l.a. now for nine years and moving it to new york and just being dropped in the middle of the city. and we have shot in every borrow and we're only the sixth in the season. >> how did you get the role. >> you come in and you test and you -- i spoke to warren light who's our show runner and we talked about what this character could be. we tried to make him more three dimensioned. he's a family man, he has a daughter, his marriage is on the rocks. he's coming in from warrants and from narcotics and so svu is an

emotional squad, it's an emotional unit because it is such a violation of all of these crimes. >> how exciting is it? it's got to be a thrill, to find yourself doing this, man, this is huge. >> you want to get on the show because you sound superexciting. >> it is a exciting thing. it's fun to go to work every day and work with kelly and it's fantastic. >> here our talk show host rile here. >> that's what i was getting at. i was alluding to that. >> if you need some real life stories for your plots and stuff, right there. go to his life, dig n. >> hair color as changed. >> take a look at his bedroom, you wouldn't believe it. >> the new episode of law and order.

>> svu airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern. reveal the finalist for the national book awards, plus, we're going to be looking at new polls out in the swing states to see if mitt romney is gaining on the president when we return. wç

we have the world renowned casting director. >> what have we got coming up, joe. >> she always does this when we have famous actors and directors come on. >> bill clinton campaigns for the president in las vegas and let's just say there's some jumping involved there, this guy's excited. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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. i had a different reaction to that speech than a lot of people did. i thought, wow. here's old moderate mitt. where ya been, boy, i missed you all these years. but he described himself as severe conservative mitt. they all got together and said this ship is sinking faster than the titanic so just show up with a sunny face and say i didn't mean all that stuff i said the last two years.

believe you own lying eyes here. if i had been the president, i would have said, well, i hate to get in the way of this, i missed you. >> welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on set, we have mike barnicle, donnie deutsch and in washington, sam sky. you know what's kind of interest interesti interesting. >> he's not that interesting. >> people who run for office at a very high level some have an easier time giving themselves to others to an audience. >> what a way to put it, right,

donnie? >> he's also so brilliant as he did during the convention to breaking it down. to me he just gave me a road map for the rest of the campaign. what are you getting. it is stunning the way romney on a brilliant performance that he can contradict it with the last six months, it was a joke. >> as donnie deutsch can tell you as well, something happens to a man when he goes to vegas. >> you haven't heard of the brilliant campaign, what happens in vegas, stays in vegas. >> he jumped, he elevated. he elevated. mika, we're going to see this week a series of polls that are going to be the first debate polls, we saw the pew polls that

shows mitt romney a good built, four points in national news. but now the real news begins, the state by state by state polls. we get a few, the report on this morning. >> the election is coming t fight for the battleground state, less than four weeks until election day in ohio where there are 18 electoral votes up for grabs, a new cnn poll shows the president leading by four points, 51-47. romney has gained four points there in just over a week. in new hampshire, a new granite state poll show in the last nine days, romney has whittled the president's six point lead down to just four points. i guess the question is, is this what happens naturally or was this spurred by the debate? >> it doesn't happen naturally. it happens after there's an

earth quake. >> really? >> there was a political earthquake last week, the likes of which, i got to say, i have never seen an american politician where a shift happ happened that dramatically in one night. you have seen these things, i have had somebody tell me, you need seven positive impressions to prove the dial here and you need this and that and you guys have it all figured out and usually it creeps up on people. but the race really did, it just changed overnight during that debate. it's a long-term impact. we don't know, we just know that it's going to make it more competitive, romney will go ahead in states like florida, virginia, north carolina, but these other states, he still has room to make up. >> i think you co-talk to pollst pollsters, they have never seen ever, a shift like that, you need a debate in front of 70 million people. what i find interesting is next week, obama, the good news is

that he's the underdog, all he's got to do is look aggressive, feel aggressive. having said that, if romney wins that debate again, i think he wins the election. there's no way to say that there was altitude, he was the president, he didn't want to come down to romney's level, so romney's got the advantage the second time. romney had the must-win, now obama's got the must win. >> if mitt romney didn't stand up and deliver, the election was over. we were saying that here, and guess what, that was just the case. a lot of freakazoids on the right want romney to stand up and deliver. the shoess own the other foot

now, if barack obama blows it again like he did in the first debate, i agree with donny that that creates the momentum that pushes romney toward the finish line. >> saycould it be the truth tha mitt romney won the debate no. thank you hatred is coming from the left and there's some pressure there because obama has to and deliver. >> we talk about the numbers and approximate polls all stay every day, maybe too much. to them the president election is a narrative, it's something they talk about, occasionally, not all the time the way we do, but the narrative, the story is what drives the voters, and the narrative this week and will continue into next week is can the president recover, can we

come back and be president on the stage with the contender, mitt romney. if he goes down again the way he did in last week's debate. that narrative, a lot of people are going to be thinking maybe he's just not into the job. >> we should also say people one week ago today were saying debates don't matter, that argument has been put to rest. so we can now say that the detectiv second debate really matters too. >> there's so much historical data saying that sometimes debates don't matter and in many cases they don't. even when they have historic moments that are emblazoned in our collective memory. >> if you look at the polling data from the debate, it's clear

that romney did get a bump from it. on saturday and sunday, and this is a breakdown in the gallup poll and other polls, that bump sort of receded and the president's jobs numbers took over. so any poll that includes thursday and friday is going to show romney up. i will be cautious of showing how big that bump s how we see polls that don't include thursday and friday. it's clear that the debates matter, it reset the narrative. and the other thing i would say is that for obama, if you look back to his debate, he didn't do any harm to his cause. he didn't actually stop romney from -- he didn't put out an affirmative case for why he should be president and i think what the endearing legacy of this debate is going to be that obama really did demoralize a lot of people that were in the debate. he didn't outline affirmatively

what the next four years will look like. chuck todd was talking about numbers before the debate about an enthusiasm gap. well, this doesn't help the enthusiasm gap. >> if this was a football game, this was the first quarter. you got the vice presidential debate, you got two other debatdebate s at the end. if you're barack obama, you're saying people are going to pay more attention to debate two, and debate three, and how great is it for obama obama if you want to look at this positively, he's the underdog now. >> the president of the united states is now the underdog and now if he shows up and speaks in complete sentences. >> one thing, joe, you wrote in politico, and i thought it was right on the money. >> i have to go to times square to do a responsive reading with

an audience. we have never seen obama having to night. we have always seen him gliding along the top. it's always kind of been winged at his back. what we're going to really see about this guy, what people are tuning in and leaning in, can he counterpart? we have never seen him in the position, you've been called out, what do you got? and we're going to see it, you're really going to see what's in those intestines. >> his counter punch has been big bird, what is that? that's really not the most deep counterpunch you can have. >> i'm talking about now. >> i agree with sam, they're focussing on big bird. you're going to go really? >> get that ad off the air. get it on the air. the ad was made for cable news. >> get it off immediately.

it shows such weakness, it really, really does. you have seen him counterpunch. he can do it, the question is does he like to do it or does he wait and say i'm the underdog? >> the question is can he do it on his feet? he's not good in debates, he's horrible in debates. he was horrible against hillary clinton, he was not great against john mccain, he's got to bring his a-game. >> it's what's happening or not happening in washington that people are really complaining about. so they want to see someone who can engage, but with four weeks to go, i think it's going to be fascinating to watch the candidates on the trail. in cleveland last night, an estimated 12,000 people showed up to report the republican candidate who was introduced by a fired up governor chris

christie of new jersey. >> afew weeks ago i watched the democratic national convention, i did it as a sacrifice and service to my country. i sat on my couch in my living room, and i made my son bring me a big bottle of water because when i hear that much b.s., i get light-headed. mr. president, you have lived inside 1600 pennsylvania avenue for four years, if you can't change washington from inside the white house, then let's get you the ticket back to chicago you have earned. >> i have been watching some of president obama's rallies and they chant four more years, four more years. i think the right chant ought to be for them, four more weeks. for more weeks. and with an audience like

this -- >> four more weeks! four more weeks! four more weeks! >> that's a big crowd. i'm telling you, and i go back to womillie what we said, we go two great candidates, two great people, two great fathers, who great husbands, you get thousands and thousands of people coming out in the rain for romney. you have 30 thou,000 coming out week for the president. this is going to be a great four weeks. >> when we come back, actor and director ben affleck joins us about the rescue iranian hostage movement which few people have heard of it. it's incredibly directed and

inkrebdably done. and we're going to be announcing the finest national prestigious award. >> willie geist, i have never seen him waiting for a slow build. >> and they haven't even announced the nobel yet. so it's going to be a big week. >> the subtitle, loaded, loaded. >> lose 20 pounds in two weeks and get really, rich, really fast. by willie geist. >> he wins a nobel for this. >> thank you for saying that. >> it's amazing. >> let's go to -- >> have you ever, ever seen any meteorologist that comes here -- he is the dean martin, the

foster brooks. >> and slithering up the stairs to do the weather right now is bill karins. >> hi, bill. >> good morning, everyone. airport delays, not too bad, a little bit of clouds, a little bit of drizzle out there in new york city and southern portions of new england. only 45-minute delays in foyphi, even with the wet conditions out there and soon into massachusetts. later today, new hampshire, vermont and maine. south of philadelphia, looking for a pretty decent day, a little better down there, maybe a peek of sunshine. talk about winter. it feels very chilly in the northern plains. people are just complaining, we have flipped a switch from summer to winter in a hurry. windchills, those are 20-degree readings in chicago.

all t on the west coast, enjoy the dry weather while it lasts, the pacific northwest, your rainy season will officially begin friday, and it looks like we had a wet weekend for you. as far as washington, d.c. goes, a little peek of sunshine as we begin to kick in the transitional season. jack, you're a little boring. boring. boring. [ jack ] after lauren broke up with me, i went to the citi private pass page and decided to be...not boring. that's how i met marilyn... giada...

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marion, who were the last three prime ministers of canada? >> where were you born. >> halifax, nova scotia. >> what was the last move you produced. who paid for that? what's your middle name, what's your middle name, what's your middle name, shoot him, he's an american spy. they're going to try to break you. you have to know your resume back to front. >> you really think your little story's going to make a difference when there's a gun to our heads. >> that was the scene from the new movie argo. the movie is based on real events.

joining us now the film's director and star, ben affleck. >> thank you very much for having me on the show. >> i love this movie and you guys want to talk about the rest. >> i thought the movie was am e amazing, i don't really watch movies and when i do, i walk out of them. this was good, this was really good. my muscles were clenched from beginning to end and i still have images of the movies and the moment when the embassy itself was being seized. it was just really riveting. >> it's actually going to be nominated to win best picture of the year. the most amazing thing is that the story itself, there's an old saying bill goldman has it, if it's not on the page, it's not on the stage. this story, how did it's cape

up? >> i love you guys and i wanted to be on the show permanently. >> it got declassified in 1997. a journalist put together this huge, luminous set and george clooney's company bought it and so it took a long time. as soon as i read it. it's like this thriller, it's really funny, it has this intricate cia kind of mystery and it was all true and i thought if i would execute -- >> why isn't it part of american lore? this is the kind of story that's screaming to be told in history books and to be made into a movie years ago. >> i think one of the things is, that's a hard question to answer. by the time 1997 rolled around,

the crisis wasn't what it was. the hostage crisis wasn't disappointing and upsetting and a real national downer. in america, we don't always get things right, but this is one police where our people did it right. people have in their consciousness all kinds of things that are happening in the present day. >> we all know washington bureaucracy, most of us have dealt with it. you get to the end where you figure out what they're going to do. weal the beginning where they're talking about bicycles and all these other assinine plans. >> cars are off the table because of the road blocks. >> we have intelligence that

they can ride bicycles and teach them to ride them. >> i'm going to l.a., we're going to pretend we're -- they had to be rolling their eyes. >> he had an, interestingly enough, he had been working historically with this guy john chambers who won the first oscar for makeup. he had this guy look just like john goodman and he had been working in hollywood a fair bit. using the skies to get people out of southeast asia and stuff like this. so when we came up with this idea and he took it back to them, they really didn't have the kind of best bad idea they had. so i knew some of the people that were in the movie. i just can't imagine it, but the movie, you get it. you get why that was the only bad option.

>> yeah, at the end of the movie, i didn't want the movie plit sides, i had republican friends and democratic friends. i certainly didn't want to be politicized internationally. but i did use a recorder at the end of the movie. yeah, we did this thing, they went under cover, being a movie krurks it was very dangerous, but we did it and it was successful not because i wanted to be a referendum on the carter presidency. but this actually validated, we watched this whole crazy thing and here's the president of the united states when it happened saying, yeah, we did this. >> talk about tony mendez. >> it was an honor to play him. he received the intelligence stars. i think he's one of the most 50 important agents in history. as a guy when i met him, i guess i assumed he would be very macho or something, he was very

inscrutab inscrutable. i guess he still had that spy instinct. he took me in this spy--i thought, whoa, this isn't like sliding down the roof and breaking necks and cia in hollywood, this was this is real people doing a real job and i waned from that moment on to pay real tribute to that. >> there's no mistake when you watch this, it's a thriller, but there is some absurdity in there. as you say in the movie, you couldn't just make business cards and sell it. you had to create all the apparatus around the movie. and i'm thinking of the table read when you have all these made up characters in this madeup movie doing a table read for the press. >> it's a bit of a sendup. it's about the absurdity of hollywood. it's about them trying to sell it. they had to get it in the paper

and one of the ways to get it into the papers was to do a read through. it's the worst novel ever seen. >> only an american government would allow something like this to be hatched and had a chance of working. >> i don't remember as well that period of time, but as i did research, i found that you had this country, a democratic incumbent, an economy in trouble, it was 18% interest rates. but unemployment was quite high and i think a lot of americans were looking at what they believed because permanent sense of ze klein, so those parallels were really interested in me making it the way that the revolution might sigh into the arab spring for the green revolution. i think it was really interesting. i wish the movie wasn't so relevant and i certainly wish it wasn't so relevant to the

situation in the benghazi ambassador was killed but it seals to be something that we can't quite find our way past. >> willie, we know what ended the malaise of the carter years, 2004, red sox winning the world series. >> two things, one, the hockey win, over the failures. and game seven of the american league world series in 2004. >> we're still hanging on to that. >> not to mention the reagan tax cuts. >> i would rather go to the bloody side. >> four, we get the damon grand slam, we take what we can get. >> never let it go. >> there's still second base. it's still barnacle's screen save all these years later, by that much. history. >> what a great play. i'm right there with you.

>> i'm the yankee fan here so this is what it's like every morning. >> he's the outcast. >> is it true that, let's take a survey, that thei the yankees more than they love the red sox? >> i respect jeter, great player. >> i love a-rod. he strikes out all the time. how can you not love a-rod. >> i want to talk about ben. if you go way back, you can do dazed and confused, good will hunting, you and matt explode on to the scene, win the oscar, the whole thing. now you're taking it out, producing and directing great critically acclaimed films. is this the best year in your

history? >> this is not wood, but i'll knock on something. i am doing movies that are really interesting to me. i am really inspired by it. i get a chance to -- i'm after some really smart people and have conversations with this and share ideas with folks. those two things basically take up all my time but they're pretty great. i'm very lucky, i'm very fortunate. i fell out of work in africa and i know there has. been one single day in my life as some of the folks i have seen. so i don't spend too much time complaining. yeah, i have had some movies thatwork, i have had some movies that didn't work. i'll have both in the future if i'm lucky enough to keep working. >> how hard is it in the hollywood environment that exists today, to put like real events that impact people's

lives and havism pacted people's lives on the screen as opposed to the industry. how hard is it to get those out? >> i think most of the money is made in superhero ske r sequels. so in zradramas, you get on andd on and cable does great jobs, so some of those folks are staying home. and history itself is not a good movie. history is history. and best studied as such, i think. or people who write about it, for example. movies need to have drama. >> i'll tell you that opening scene brings you there, and i don't know because i watched it so closely as a child, but you are drawn into it. you feel like you are in there with them and you don't get out until the movie's over. it's amazing. i don't know how you did that in

this day and age because movies are hard to get torques sell to -- >> the inspiration for that was and i don't liken myself to stephen spielberg, one of the great masters. saving private ryan, it starts the movie and pulls you in with that sequence, with revolutionize revolutionizes movie sequences. >> that's one of the great movies of the past ten years. you got that's got to be one of those things that you get at the end, you never know how it's going to turn out until it's done, that's got to be something where you just sat there in that last scene, willie in florida, that last shot, you had to even sarks i'm pretty good here. this doesn't suck. >> i sat there with my fingernails. in a movie, if people don't see it, it's a tree falling in the

woods, it's a plastic dvd. if they do see it, it's this wonderful passionate experience. to me it's just about getting the people in the theater. it will burst out with a big weekend and this is going to be one that sort of goes along, on more of a sort of long haul pattern, at least i hope. >> you're very nice and the movie is really good. argo in theaters on friday. i've worked hard to build my family.

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it's 40 past the hour, we celebrate authors each and every morning. our viewers love to read and this morning, we're proud to help recognize the best of the best with the exclusive announcement of the national book award finalists. and joining us now, the national chairman of the board of directors of the national book awards final is. >> maybe i should tell you about

the national book awards, it's the awards that are given to the best midwestern books. -- american books. >> we know each other. if you look at who has won these boorks in the past, it's great american writers, it's a real life-changing event for an author. we start with tens of thousands of books and we get down to ten finalists. >> who are the finalists? >> the fiction finalists, no one has heard these before. these are the fiction finalists. "this is how you lose her" by joel diaz. billy lindh's long half time

walk by halftime fountain. so what you have here is three very acclaimed writers, diaz, eggers and dert rick, and some writer who is use the iraq war. this is a first time writer, in all the action takes place in 11 days. this is a war hero who's. let's now get to the finalists in nonfiction. >> okay, nonfiction. the finalists are iron curtain. the passage of power by robert

krk aro -- and house of stone by anthony sadid. >> we have got ann's book here early and read it and this is the bound gally. it's an amazing book that goes back through a fascinating time, 1945 through 1956 talking about how the soviets basically crushed eastern europe. >> she has an incredible story. >> i don't know the it's just the work of a lifetime.

>> he's won the national book award before. the incredible thing about this book is he actually -- it's really an incredible master work. >> poetry finalists. >> the poetry timists, david ferry, cynthia huntington, allan shapiro and susan wheeler. >> what's the process of winoing these down? >> we have five nonfiction judges evaluating nonfiction, they narrow it down to these five finalists and on november 14, they fly to new york, we give them lunch and we tell them you can't get up for lunch until you pick the winner then we'll

announce the win they're night. >> let's do young people's timists. >> william alexander, carry arrest coast, elliott schieffer and come by steve shine kin. the thing we see with young people's literature is more and more serious themes. so in every case you've got young people in danger, young people facing challenges. >> you could say this about any of the awards for the arts. but it's so subjective. how do you choose between five great books in every category. >> it's up to these judges to look at the books of highst quality. >> this is an ongoing scandal that won. >> you know, this show has --

this book as well as loaded. why do the criticings continue to -- is it just pure jealousy, david? buy they hate willie geist? >> david, how is knowing your value doing? >> knowing your value is a huge best seller. >> it's his book. nobel prize for literature this year. >> okay, david steinberger, i hope you want to come back someday. >> thanks for having me on. >> congratulations to all these authors.

they have sweated blood for years. congratulations on what you've accomplished today. we're really proud of you. >> you can check out the full list of this year's national book awards finalists on our blogs. we have also posted some excerpts from the books that have made the list and also some interviews from some of the finalists we have had on the show. up next, business before the bell, we're back in a moment.

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time to talk about what we learned today. a lot of friends in tallahassee. we have got a big announcement, not just about winning the pugh litszer prize and -- >> today across the street we announce that i'll be one of the new co-hosts of the 9:00 a.m. hour of the "today" show. but that doesn't mean i'm going anywhere. i'm staying with "morning joe." i'll be with you here and then i'll run across the street. >> you're stuck with us. >> the best of both worlgds. >> i would never leaf you. willie you are an